UPDATE: 15.25am GMT 30 May – RESOLVED
Paypal have acknowledged the double billing issue!
Please see here and here.
If YOU are a merchant whose customers have been affected by double billing, Paypal have confirmed that you can EITHER refund one of the two transactions by yourself OR contact their merchant support.
Sincere thanks to Karen and Danny in Paypal for their help, for working together to resolve our problems and for keeping us informed along the way.
While we have received great service from two individuals at Paypal within the last 12 hours, this does not excuse the lack of communication or assistance that we were forced to endure in the previous two weeks. We remain distinctly dissatisfied with the way Paypal have handled this situation.
As far as we can see, ALL the issues we previously reported are now RESOLVED.
UPDATE: 13.45am GMT 30 May
We have just emailed all the requested information to our contact in the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations who has promised to further investigate our case.
It appears that Paypal really ARE capable of providing good support – it’s just a shame that it took so long (and a blog post?) for it to happen.
UPDATE: 13.05am GMT 30 May
The excellent chap now looking after our case in “PayPal Merchant Technical Support” has just updated us again:
I’m working with our management team to setup a procedure for all the PayPal merchant affected by this issue.
We will also post shortly on our forum an acknowledgement of this additional issue with subscriptions, where you can redirect your customers in case they need a clarification.
I’ll keep you posted.
While it has taken weeks for this to happen Paypal ARE now communicating and we hope that the remaining unresolved issues will shortly be resolved for all of us.
UPDATE: 12.55am GMT 30 May
We are delighted to advise that we have spoken to a very helpful person in the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations. She apologised on behalf of Paypal, is fully investigating our case at present and has noted all our points in relation to the lack of communication and assistance. We will keep you updated.
UPDATE: 12.05am GMT 30 May
We have received a further email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”.
After reviewing those transactions I fully agree with the description of the issue you gave me.
Folks – we hope this means that the double billing issues will be resolved shortly.
UPDATE: 11.50am GMT 30 May
We have now received a voicemail from the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations. They would like to speak to us about the ongoing subscription problems and double billing issues. They are due to call us back later today.
UPDATE: 11.20am GMT 30 May
We have received a further email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”. They have informed us that the missing subscription issue has been resolved as we established in our update at the end of this post at 11:20pm GMT yesterday.
They have also confirmed that they are investigating the double billing issue. We are very relieved to finally KNOW that Paypal are actively investigating and addressing our concerns.
We will update again as we hear more.
UPDATE: 7.40am GMT 30 May
We have received an email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”
Thank you for contacting PayPal Merchant Technical Support.
I will research this matter further and update you with more information as it becomes available. If you have any additional information or updates to your issue, please use the instructions in this email to update your ticket.
Thank you for your patience.
Although the double billing issue remains, in light of many of the other issues being resolved we are hopeful that this problem will be fixed shortly.
Many thanks to all of you for your support. Particular thanks to our customers who have been directly affected by these problems for their patience and understanding.
We would like to emphasise that if the problems had been “just” affecting StatCounter we could have lived with that (e.g. if payment to our bank account was delayed) but since these problems have impacted on our members also, Paypal’s lack of action is simply unacceptable.
We are not happy that these issues had to brought into the public domain like this, however, Paypal’s lack of communication and assistance left us with no other option.
It may be a coincidence, but on the day that we posted this blog, nearly all of the highlighted issues were reported as “resolved”, 14 days after all of the problems arose.
We would still welcome an official response from Paypal in relation to these these problems.
Hi folks,
The Issue
We are having ongoing, critical problems with Paypal.
In view of the complete lack of assistance from Paypal in this regard, we have decided that we have no option but to inform you, our members, about the facts of the situation. This will allow you to make an informed decision about whether to use (or whether to continue to use) Paypal.
Please note that these problems may arise not only in relation to payments made to StatCounter but in relation to ANY Paypal payments that you make. We hope that this post will equip you with the information necessary to make sure that YOU do not become another victim of this ongoing Paypal saga.
The Problems
On 15 May Paypal performed a site update – this is confirmed by Paypal here.
After this date numerous problems were reported across the globe:
- The Paypal Handling Cart feature completely broke down – see update below
- Cross border payments could not be made as the drop down country list did not work – see update below
- Customers have been flooded with hundreds of duplicate subscription emails from Paypal – see update below
- Payments from Paypal are no longer associated with the relevant subscriptions – see update below
- Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
- Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
- Merchants/customers are unable to cancel subscriptions – see update below
The main problem that we have with Paypal is NOT the list of issues above – we all know that errors happen – we are absolutely furious at the complete lack of acknowledgement or assistance from Paypal in relation to these matters.
At StatCounter we have tried phoning, emailing, posting on the Paypal forums… Many of our contacts are ignored, but even when we do get an answer all we are told is that “Upon review of your account, unfortunately we do not have a time frame for a resolution to your issue we are currently actively investigating your issue with subscriptions.” You can see our posts in the Paypal forums here and here.
It appears that all of these problems are the result of the update made by Paypal on 15 May. Typically, any software upgrades can be “rolled back” if they are found to be flawed. Paypal’s inability (unwillingness?) to do this does not bode well.
What does this mean for me as a StatCounter Paypal Subscriber?
Unfortunately, we will be unable to issue invoices to many of our customers who pay us via Paypal until such time as the above issues are resolved. This is because the “payment file” provided by Paypal and from which invoices are generated is incomplete.
There is also a danger that you may be “double billed”. Please make sure to check your Paypal account to see if this happens. Although we would be delighted to sort out any double billing for you, in the current climate of confusion we are unsure whether WE are actually receiving the erroneously charged amounts. This means that WE are not currently able to refund any of these overpayments to you. We strongly believe that since this is a Paypal error, Paypal should rectify the situation – and leave us to focus again on our members rather than cleaning up a mess of Paypal’s making. Please do report any double billing to us and we will take action to report each case directly to Paypal.
Other StatCounter Upgrade Options
Please note that you can also make subscription payments to StatCounter using your credit card directly, by cheque or by electonic transfer to our bank.
Conclusion
Folks – we sincerely regret any problems you are experiencing and assure you that we are doing our best to get all of these issues resolved for you. We strive to offer a high level of customer service and pride ourselves on being responsive to the needs and suggestions of our members. To have our hands “tied” in this way as a result of Paypal’s inaction is frustrating to say the least.
These problems with Paypal have already cost us thousands of dollars. We continue to expend large amounts of time and resources on these issues – resources which we would much prefer to concentrate on improving the service we provide to you. We would be very grateful for your patience at this time as we wait for Paypal to resolve these issues.
We would also ask you to be patient with any of our fellow internet merchants experiencing difficulties with Paypal at this time.
Please post any comments or questions below.
Notes:
- This post is not intended to alarm, instead it is intended to inform.
- We at StatCounter do not take any pleasure in having to report these issues to you, rather we feel at this point that we have no option but to do so.
- While we hope that this post will generate media attention which may force Paypal to finally act and respond to the various problems outlined above, it is not the intention of the post to generate publicity for StatCounter.
- As we like to try to accomodate the needs of our members Paypal is still currently available as a payment option on StatCounter for new upgraded account subscribers. This position is currently under review and opinions from our members in this regard are being sought here.
- Paypal, of course, have a right of reply to this post and should they wish to contact us, we would be happy to post their response here.
Other Links:
www.channelregister.co.uk
tech.blorge.com
www.finextra.com
Paypal Forums 1
Paypal Forums 2
Paypal Forums 3
Update 2pm GMT 29 May: This post by Paypal indicates that the following issues have been resolved:
1) For subscription signups, when trying to enter billing information users
are not be able to change the country on the billing page.
2) For merchants using “handling_cart” parameter with PayPal Shopping
Cart buttons handling amount is not charged.
To the best of our knowledge the other issues remain and do not yet appear to have been acknowledged by Paypal.
Update 9pm GMT 29 May: A post by a Paypal staff member here indicates that these issues (some of which we weren’t even aware of) have been resolved:
1. Cannot change ‘country’ for subscriptions.
2. Free trials not being charged once trial period is over.
3. Subscriptions with free trials not being shown in history log.
4. Can’t cancel an active subscription.
5. Multiple emails being recieved (sic) for subscription payments.
No mention appears to have been made of these issues:
# Payments from Paypal are no longer associated with the relevant subscriptions
# Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
# Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
The double billing remains the major issue of concern to us.
Update 11:20pm GMT 29 May:
Although we have still not received any official communications from Paypal, we can confirm from our own experience that payments from Paypal ARE now again being associated with the relevant subscriptions. For StatCounter members with Paypal upgrades this will mean that we can now issue you with your outstanding invoices.
We have confirmed in our account that the double billing issue persists:
# Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
As far as we are aware, the following issue also remains:
# Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
Just a quick comment on the email you sent. This part:
“Please note that these problems have been ongoing since 15 May and arise
not only in relation to payments made to StatCounter but in relation to ANY
Paypal payments that you make.”
is dangerous for you, my favourite stats counter.
You highlighted “ANY”, an all-inclusive term that allows them to sue you out of business. And they have the means. I hope they don’t but I would advise you to email everyone that the problem you faced MAY affect other payments, as Paypal recognised. And start papering the file with testimonials from other merchants for His Honour’s edification.
Or give His Honour a subscription to Paypal and encourage him to use it to buy presents for his wife’s birthday 🙂
StatCounter Team Response:
Many thanks for your comment Francois.
As you will see from some of the comments in this blog, many people are happy with the service that Paypal provide. The point we are trying to make is that the Paypal issues we describe are NOT just arising for StatCounter members – they are arising for numerous merchants across the globe as evidenced by various website articles and blogs. There is a risk that ANY payment you make could be affected. Thanks for allowing us to clarify this.
While not ALL Paypal payments are affected, without any comment to the contrary from Paypal, we can only assume that ANY payments could be affected. We await clarification from Paypal in this regard.
Hi folks,
Nothing new, this message regarding the Paypal issue.
We have websites in 9 countries, in which we have a payment module in each and every one of them. Our psp processes the payments, and gives us feedback in real time about the payment status of our clients, enabling us to connect the account details to the payment status.
In the beginning, about 2 years ago, we tried to work with paypal as well, but they can not report in real time, everything went completely wrong, and no assistance at all. And I mean, none what so ever.
So, I am not surprised about this.
Good luck to you guys, and thanks for the great services you provide.
Hmm, I joined paypal earlier this week with a view to introducing online sales to my website but I had a number of questions regarding currency issues.
Although paypal did respond I was not satisfied with their response as it dealt with everything but what I had asked which I deemed unprofessional.
I think I will pursue other options now, does anyone have any suggestions for shopping cart & merchant account that can deal in Malaysian currency?
tia.
I have not used StatCounter for years. Why send this to me?
StatCounter Team Response:
Hi Jeff,
Your email address is linked to three active StatCounter accounts. This is why you received the email. Please use the opt out link at the bottom of the email to be removed from future mails.
Apologies for any inconvenience.
This is yet another example why so many people refuse to use paypal to buy anything online. It’s also reinforcement to me that anything I sell online I’d better offer the ability to make a purchase through means other than (or in addition to) paypal because so many simply refuse to use paypal. Thank you for being so “out in the open” about this issue StatCounter and I’ll continue to support you and your great system.
I have had many problems with paypal over the last year, I now have accounts with moneybookers and nochecks, their fees are far less and they don’t freeze your account when some disgruntled customer complains about you. . . unfortunately there are still far to many people who only have paypal so I have to keep the paypal account going. . . . .
I too have had problems with Paypal. I had an account with them when they first started out, never used it, and so I cancelled it. Or so I thought. It actually took a certified registered letter sent by an attorney to get them to send me written verification that the account was closed and that any charges accumulated on it would be their responsibility, not mine.
Needless to say, I don’t use Paypal, ever, for anything. To those of you who say that there is no alternative, you are wrong! There is a very powerful alternative!! That alternative is to tell the party you want to do business with that you don’t use Paypal because they are untrustworthy. Tell them that if you can’t complete the transaction another way that you will take your business elsewhere because trust is more important than convenience. The more people tell businesses that they won’t use Paypal, the quicker they will get the message and quit requiring it. (I have not had one single business decline to make other arrangements yet, btw.)
Thanks for keeping us posted, StatCounter. Sorry you had to join the “Paypal Sucks Club”, but many of us understand completely and don’t hold it against you.
I have used Paypal for several years with only minors glitches here & there, as with any banking institution.
This week I had a customer who was charged 5 times for her purchase by Paypal. It showed up only once on my account. Not sure how this will turn out.
Paypal is expensive but offers many valuable services, such as the virtual terminal. Until I can find a comparable merchant service I’ll continue to use them.
I appreciate the heads up on possible problems & will monitor my account more closely. Please keep us informed of the outcome of your situation.
Have you tried Google Checkout? I switched to that service, seems much slicker and more reliable than PaPal.
I have had issues with PayPal and ZenCart – clients cannot choose to pay from their PayPal account – they can only pay with an eCheck. Contacted PayPal and they responded right away and said it works fine on their end. I responded and said it isn’t working. I had 4 people test it and ALL were only given the eCheck option. Again they responded that it worked for them. Well it doesn’t work for those that I need it to work for and they haven’t responded since.
Back in April I did have one person pay for an item I was selling on another site and it went through 2 times. I just refunded her second (duplicated) payment with no problems.
Many sellers are going to Revolution Money Exchange. While they do not have the “shopping cart” feature in place yet they are working on it. Transactions (buying and selling) are absolutely FREE. I believe this is a great alternative to PayPal especially for small business owners. I was hesitant to try them out but now that I have been with them for almost 2 months I am completely happy with their services!
Oh and you get $25.00 for signing up with them – no catches – $25.00 FREE in your account. Refer someone and you get $10! (restrictions apply)
They have “Buy it Now” buttons you can put on your site and “Grab It’ buttons where the customer can put in their total (if purchasing multiple items). You control ALL money received and sent. You must approve any money sent to you!
Check them out – click on my name up there to go to their website! It truly is the better alternative and like I said once they get their shopping cart active for their users… say goodbye to PayPal!!
I spent two years building up a network of Safelist Sites. Twenty six of them to be exact. Total membership of over 35,000.
Everything was going good until all of a sudden my monthly payments to my hosting companies started to be turned down.
I sent several e-mails to cutomer support and got their canned replies but no results. I continued to pay my monthly hosting fees via my credit card through PayPal. The same one they said they couldn’t fund my payments with!
I called PayPal Customer support, and spoke to someone that I could barely understand. After an hour and a half of a long distant cell phone call, I was informed he had found the problem. PayPal had changed something in their system and apparently my account information had been deleted from their system. It was very hard to understand the explanation but the bottom line was he admitted that PayPal had caused the problem and the only thing I could do was to start over with my lists.
PayPal destroyed two years of work and thought nothing of it.
I have closed my account and will never – ever – use PayPal again!.
Here’s a no fee alternative to paypal!
http://www.revolutionmoneyexchange.com
I know of people having had problems with PayPal in the past as well, specifically with e-Bay and discrepancies in purchases or shipping. Both entities make guarantees in this regard, but do little to enforce their warranties, very likely because people with small claims drop them after awhile, the frustration with pursuing them not being worth the effort. I believe e-Bay addressed these issues in the past two years, but obviously PayPal continues to be a problem. One way to get results is to boycott their service, utilizing whatever other method one can, and to be certain they know that is happening.
How about it? How about some good, old-fashioned activism? No better way to have a company sit up and take notice than to hit them where it hurts!
I can’t believe all the whiners complaining that Statcounter sent them an email regarding a potential problem. Maybe they work for Paypal… I wish Paypal had been as proactive when it comes to all the spoof emails I finally grew tired of forwarding to them. Since Statcounter caters to webmasters, why is it so terrible that they would warn their users of a site used by many webmasters? I have a Paypal account, and they haven’t bothered to let me know of these problems. Keep up the good work, folks.
Thanks for the email Statcounter.
I agree with you 100%
I have been using paypal for payments on my website for a while now, and I have an ongoing issue with them that they do not seem to be in the slightest bit interested in sorting out.
They are an absolute pain in the neck.
For anyone who says they have never had problems with Paypal, stick with them and you will eventually. How about $25 completely disappearing from an account with no evidence that it ever existed? Pfffft. The negative stories about them are all too true.
On the other hand, I love Google Checkout and the merchant rates certainly are much better than Paypal’s. The BS hype that Ebay/Paypal puts out about people preferring Paypal to any other service is just that… hype and BS.
I’ve had only one customer on my website who was not familiar with GC and chose not to use it. When I told her I did not “do” Paypal, we both happily settled on a money order. Nobody NEEDS Paypal.
I no longer do business with anyone who offers only Paypal as their payment service. Paypal really does suck.
Thanks for making us aware of the problems…