UPDATE: 15.25am GMT 30 May – RESOLVED
Paypal have acknowledged the double billing issue!
Please see here and here.
If YOU are a merchant whose customers have been affected by double billing, Paypal have confirmed that you can EITHER refund one of the two transactions by yourself OR contact their merchant support.
Sincere thanks to Karen and Danny in Paypal for their help, for working together to resolve our problems and for keeping us informed along the way.
While we have received great service from two individuals at Paypal within the last 12 hours, this does not excuse the lack of communication or assistance that we were forced to endure in the previous two weeks. We remain distinctly dissatisfied with the way Paypal have handled this situation.
As far as we can see, ALL the issues we previously reported are now RESOLVED.
UPDATE: 13.45am GMT 30 May
We have just emailed all the requested information to our contact in the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations who has promised to further investigate our case.
It appears that Paypal really ARE capable of providing good support – it’s just a shame that it took so long (and a blog post?) for it to happen.
UPDATE: 13.05am GMT 30 May
The excellent chap now looking after our case in “PayPal Merchant Technical Support” has just updated us again:
I’m working with our management team to setup a procedure for all the PayPal merchant affected by this issue.
We will also post shortly on our forum an acknowledgement of this additional issue with subscriptions, where you can redirect your customers in case they need a clarification.
I’ll keep you posted.
While it has taken weeks for this to happen Paypal ARE now communicating and we hope that the remaining unresolved issues will shortly be resolved for all of us.
UPDATE: 12.55am GMT 30 May
We are delighted to advise that we have spoken to a very helpful person in the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations. She apologised on behalf of Paypal, is fully investigating our case at present and has noted all our points in relation to the lack of communication and assistance. We will keep you updated.
UPDATE: 12.05am GMT 30 May
We have received a further email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”.
After reviewing those transactions I fully agree with the description of the issue you gave me.
Folks – we hope this means that the double billing issues will be resolved shortly.
UPDATE: 11.50am GMT 30 May
We have now received a voicemail from the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations. They would like to speak to us about the ongoing subscription problems and double billing issues. They are due to call us back later today.
UPDATE: 11.20am GMT 30 May
We have received a further email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”. They have informed us that the missing subscription issue has been resolved as we established in our update at the end of this post at 11:20pm GMT yesterday.
They have also confirmed that they are investigating the double billing issue. We are very relieved to finally KNOW that Paypal are actively investigating and addressing our concerns.
We will update again as we hear more.
UPDATE: 7.40am GMT 30 May
We have received an email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”
Thank you for contacting PayPal Merchant Technical Support.
I will research this matter further and update you with more information as it becomes available. If you have any additional information or updates to your issue, please use the instructions in this email to update your ticket.
Thank you for your patience.
Although the double billing issue remains, in light of many of the other issues being resolved we are hopeful that this problem will be fixed shortly.
Many thanks to all of you for your support. Particular thanks to our customers who have been directly affected by these problems for their patience and understanding.
We would like to emphasise that if the problems had been “just” affecting StatCounter we could have lived with that (e.g. if payment to our bank account was delayed) but since these problems have impacted on our members also, Paypal’s lack of action is simply unacceptable.
We are not happy that these issues had to brought into the public domain like this, however, Paypal’s lack of communication and assistance left us with no other option.
It may be a coincidence, but on the day that we posted this blog, nearly all of the highlighted issues were reported as “resolved”, 14 days after all of the problems arose.
We would still welcome an official response from Paypal in relation to these these problems.
Hi folks,
The Issue
We are having ongoing, critical problems with Paypal.
In view of the complete lack of assistance from Paypal in this regard, we have decided that we have no option but to inform you, our members, about the facts of the situation. This will allow you to make an informed decision about whether to use (or whether to continue to use) Paypal.
Please note that these problems may arise not only in relation to payments made to StatCounter but in relation to ANY Paypal payments that you make. We hope that this post will equip you with the information necessary to make sure that YOU do not become another victim of this ongoing Paypal saga.
The Problems
On 15 May Paypal performed a site update – this is confirmed by Paypal here.
After this date numerous problems were reported across the globe:
- The Paypal Handling Cart feature completely broke down – see update below
- Cross border payments could not be made as the drop down country list did not work – see update below
- Customers have been flooded with hundreds of duplicate subscription emails from Paypal – see update below
- Payments from Paypal are no longer associated with the relevant subscriptions – see update below
- Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
- Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
- Merchants/customers are unable to cancel subscriptions – see update below
The main problem that we have with Paypal is NOT the list of issues above – we all know that errors happen – we are absolutely furious at the complete lack of acknowledgement or assistance from Paypal in relation to these matters.
At StatCounter we have tried phoning, emailing, posting on the Paypal forums… Many of our contacts are ignored, but even when we do get an answer all we are told is that “Upon review of your account, unfortunately we do not have a time frame for a resolution to your issue we are currently actively investigating your issue with subscriptions.” You can see our posts in the Paypal forums here and here.
It appears that all of these problems are the result of the update made by Paypal on 15 May. Typically, any software upgrades can be “rolled back” if they are found to be flawed. Paypal’s inability (unwillingness?) to do this does not bode well.
What does this mean for me as a StatCounter Paypal Subscriber?
Unfortunately, we will be unable to issue invoices to many of our customers who pay us via Paypal until such time as the above issues are resolved. This is because the “payment file” provided by Paypal and from which invoices are generated is incomplete.
There is also a danger that you may be “double billed”. Please make sure to check your Paypal account to see if this happens. Although we would be delighted to sort out any double billing for you, in the current climate of confusion we are unsure whether WE are actually receiving the erroneously charged amounts. This means that WE are not currently able to refund any of these overpayments to you. We strongly believe that since this is a Paypal error, Paypal should rectify the situation – and leave us to focus again on our members rather than cleaning up a mess of Paypal’s making. Please do report any double billing to us and we will take action to report each case directly to Paypal.
Other StatCounter Upgrade Options
Please note that you can also make subscription payments to StatCounter using your credit card directly, by cheque or by electonic transfer to our bank.
Conclusion
Folks – we sincerely regret any problems you are experiencing and assure you that we are doing our best to get all of these issues resolved for you. We strive to offer a high level of customer service and pride ourselves on being responsive to the needs and suggestions of our members. To have our hands “tied” in this way as a result of Paypal’s inaction is frustrating to say the least.
These problems with Paypal have already cost us thousands of dollars. We continue to expend large amounts of time and resources on these issues – resources which we would much prefer to concentrate on improving the service we provide to you. We would be very grateful for your patience at this time as we wait for Paypal to resolve these issues.
We would also ask you to be patient with any of our fellow internet merchants experiencing difficulties with Paypal at this time.
Please post any comments or questions below.
Notes:
- This post is not intended to alarm, instead it is intended to inform.
- We at StatCounter do not take any pleasure in having to report these issues to you, rather we feel at this point that we have no option but to do so.
- While we hope that this post will generate media attention which may force Paypal to finally act and respond to the various problems outlined above, it is not the intention of the post to generate publicity for StatCounter.
- As we like to try to accomodate the needs of our members Paypal is still currently available as a payment option on StatCounter for new upgraded account subscribers. This position is currently under review and opinions from our members in this regard are being sought here.
- Paypal, of course, have a right of reply to this post and should they wish to contact us, we would be happy to post their response here.
Other Links:
www.channelregister.co.uk
tech.blorge.com
www.finextra.com
Paypal Forums 1
Paypal Forums 2
Paypal Forums 3
Update 2pm GMT 29 May: This post by Paypal indicates that the following issues have been resolved:
1) For subscription signups, when trying to enter billing information users
are not be able to change the country on the billing page.
2) For merchants using “handling_cart” parameter with PayPal Shopping
Cart buttons handling amount is not charged.
To the best of our knowledge the other issues remain and do not yet appear to have been acknowledged by Paypal.
Update 9pm GMT 29 May: A post by a Paypal staff member here indicates that these issues (some of which we weren’t even aware of) have been resolved:
1. Cannot change ‘country’ for subscriptions.
2. Free trials not being charged once trial period is over.
3. Subscriptions with free trials not being shown in history log.
4. Can’t cancel an active subscription.
5. Multiple emails being recieved (sic) for subscription payments.
No mention appears to have been made of these issues:
# Payments from Paypal are no longer associated with the relevant subscriptions
# Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
# Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
The double billing remains the major issue of concern to us.
Update 11:20pm GMT 29 May:
Although we have still not received any official communications from Paypal, we can confirm from our own experience that payments from Paypal ARE now again being associated with the relevant subscriptions. For StatCounter members with Paypal upgrades this will mean that we can now issue you with your outstanding invoices.
We have confirmed in our account that the double billing issue persists:
# Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
As far as we are aware, the following issue also remains:
# Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
Looks like Paypal is another .com good idea going wrong. Probably due to bad management, especially poor admin.
Thanks for sting the situation. Providing Pro-active information like this makes StatCounter a better company.
Really glad that you took the trouble to post this to the users of Statcounter. I’ve always felt uncomfortable with Paypal. Let us know when you change and to who.
Glad yo see you speaking out!!
Paypal was great when they were small, but they are now far too big for their boots. And being part of eBay has made both monolithic businesses even more greedy and dictatorial. Pride comes before a fall… I hope.
Paypall in romania is not avabile, is blocket …
I’m not a paying statcounter customer… but I was delighted to get this mail. I was just about to sign up to offer Paypal as a payment method on my new site, but now I am going to avoid!! I am also delighted to see some other options suggested (Google Checkout, Moneybookers) Are there any other options?
You did the right thing publishing this, you need to protect your own brand, and it seems you have tried all reasonable methods first.
Thanks Statcounter, keep up the good work!
Its good that you detailed all the facts of the problem……….now its up to Paypal to resolve this issue…….Good Luck !
Paypal is a joke, they have to be the worst payment processor out there. I have experienced so much grief with this company and it’s compounded by their extremely poor communication. How can anyone run a serious business and use Paypal?
http://www.paypalsucks.com
Tony
paypal does suck.. unfortunately i have to keep using it cuz i can’t find another option.
2 months ago they suspended my account, which had over 1000 USD in it, just because i had forgotten my password and tried to log in 3 times but failed.. it took me over a month to get them to unsuspend it.. almost all my emails went unanswered, and when i did get an answer, it was some BS copy and past response which didn’t even address my problem. no phone number to call either, and replying to their emails didn’t work.. i had to keep loging into my account and going through their tedious forms.
You guys have been fantastic from the get-go. No worries on this one — this is clearly Paypal’s fault.
We stand right by you.
– John
We hate paypal too — paypal is owned by ebay in case you didn’t know — and ebay/paypal have become increasingly monopolistic, anti-competitive, over priced and downright hostile to both buyers and sellers
Customer service for both entities of the same giant has gone from bad to worse! All they seem to care about now are hawking outrageously usurious high interest rate credit cards and high interest credit plans provided by another monopolistic monolith – G.E.
Please provide other options, suggestions and alternatives as you move forward. There has to be a better option than the awful totally sucky paypal!
the likely problem with google checkout will be that it will eventually become exactly like ebay/paypal and google is already a total behemoth spying on everyone reducing our privacy by the second.
I appreciate your difficulties but you probably should mail only paying customers and not blast everyone on your mailing list who’s ever used your service.
PayPal definitely needs to get things in order for you; but just so you know, the email came off as partly informational and partly as a smear attempt out of irritation. No hard feelings towards you, just thought your business might appreciate the feedback.
StatCounter Team Response:
Thanks for the feedback Jacob.
The reason why we decided to email ALL our members is because these problems are not specific to StatCounter. Although you may not be a paying member with us, you may have a Paypal subscription set up elsewhere.
In addition, this is not any kind of “smear” attempt. We simply want to provide information so that people can make up their own minds in this regard.
As outlined in the notes to our blog, we take no pleasure in reporting this issue to our members, but in all of our interests, we felt that we had no option but to do so.
NOTE: an attempt was made to email you but the email address provided is incorrect – “user unknown”
It seems Paypal has really monopolized the internet. For very many services I try to register, right there in the registration form there is a requirement for Paypal ID and no other options at all. So are we stuck with a non performing service?
Graeme I’ve also heard some good things about Moneybookers. Maybe thats the way to head.
I ahve a Paypal account but I only use it to pay people who do not accept anyother form of payment.
You already have credit card payments (MUCH better). Why not add a few alternatives? Moneybookers and Google Checkout both seem pretty good. Moneybookers is regulated by the FSA (the UK regualtor) which is a fairly good regulator from the consumers point of view, unlike Paypal which AFAIK seems to have largely avoided regulation.
We have used Statcounter and Paypal for a number of years and reading this post about Paypal.
I assume that the changes may have something to do with ebay’s recent acquistion of Paypal? It will cause a lot of users/websites problems if Paypal services start to decline and I’m sure that in the long run they won’t be able to afford to let this happen, so hopefully they’ll resolve their problems asap.
An alternative you may like to look at would be http://www.nochex.com/.
Aodhán,
Report them to the Better Business Bureau: www.bbb.org
They will cut through the red tape and get results.
RL
I am a PayPal Merchant with several accounts and I understand your problem. Pay Pal constantly refunds money to those who have learned how to steal from me.
Please keep me advised.
How does this affect me and why should I care. In other words, why did you send me an e-mail about this?
StatCounter Team Response:
Hi bj,
We do apologise if we have offended you by sending this email. As explained, our intention is only to warn you and others about the problems Paypal are facing. We wanted to forewarn our members about the difficulties being experienced so as to avoid having any of our members “caught out” by double billing or other problems.
This matter is relevant to the hundreds of thousands of people who use Paypal as a payment method and if it does not affect you in particular, then we are very sorry to have bothered you. Please do take a moment to view the other comments on this blog, though, and you will see that many people are concerned by recent Paypal events.
You can of course “opt out” of our occasional mailshots (the last one was sent in July 2007) by clicking the link at the bottom of the email.
hi,
amidst all this these so called Paypal company still operates? I think they messed up pretty bad here, they could have gone out with lotsa money in the bank, thank you Statcounter for providing an info about this, this sucks. Paypal has to be ready to be sued by someone soon.
_____________________________
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I just open account with paypal recently and still didn’t have any problems but i just not sure what will be in the future.
We have been thinking of offering Google Checkout on our site for some time but the features are rather inferior – if only Google could match PayPal Express Checkout.
But it looks like we may have to go ahead anyway…