UPDATE: 15.25am GMT 30 May – RESOLVED
Paypal have acknowledged the double billing issue!
Please see here and here.
If YOU are a merchant whose customers have been affected by double billing, Paypal have confirmed that you can EITHER refund one of the two transactions by yourself OR contact their merchant support.
Sincere thanks to Karen and Danny in Paypal for their help, for working together to resolve our problems and for keeping us informed along the way.
While we have received great service from two individuals at Paypal within the last 12 hours, this does not excuse the lack of communication or assistance that we were forced to endure in the previous two weeks. We remain distinctly dissatisfied with the way Paypal have handled this situation.
As far as we can see, ALL the issues we previously reported are now RESOLVED.
UPDATE: 13.45am GMT 30 May
We have just emailed all the requested information to our contact in the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations who has promised to further investigate our case.
It appears that Paypal really ARE capable of providing good support – it’s just a shame that it took so long (and a blog post?) for it to happen.
UPDATE: 13.05am GMT 30 May
The excellent chap now looking after our case in “PayPal Merchant Technical Support” has just updated us again:
I’m working with our management team to setup a procedure for all the PayPal merchant affected by this issue.
We will also post shortly on our forum an acknowledgement of this additional issue with subscriptions, where you can redirect your customers in case they need a clarification.
I’ll keep you posted.
While it has taken weeks for this to happen Paypal ARE now communicating and we hope that the remaining unresolved issues will shortly be resolved for all of us.
UPDATE: 12.55am GMT 30 May
We are delighted to advise that we have spoken to a very helpful person in the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations. She apologised on behalf of Paypal, is fully investigating our case at present and has noted all our points in relation to the lack of communication and assistance. We will keep you updated.
UPDATE: 12.05am GMT 30 May
We have received a further email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”.
After reviewing those transactions I fully agree with the description of the issue you gave me.
Folks – we hope this means that the double billing issues will be resolved shortly.
UPDATE: 11.50am GMT 30 May
We have now received a voicemail from the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations. They would like to speak to us about the ongoing subscription problems and double billing issues. They are due to call us back later today.
UPDATE: 11.20am GMT 30 May
We have received a further email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”. They have informed us that the missing subscription issue has been resolved as we established in our update at the end of this post at 11:20pm GMT yesterday.
They have also confirmed that they are investigating the double billing issue. We are very relieved to finally KNOW that Paypal are actively investigating and addressing our concerns.
We will update again as we hear more.
UPDATE: 7.40am GMT 30 May
We have received an email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”
Thank you for contacting PayPal Merchant Technical Support.
I will research this matter further and update you with more information as it becomes available. If you have any additional information or updates to your issue, please use the instructions in this email to update your ticket.
Thank you for your patience.
Although the double billing issue remains, in light of many of the other issues being resolved we are hopeful that this problem will be fixed shortly.
Many thanks to all of you for your support. Particular thanks to our customers who have been directly affected by these problems for their patience and understanding.
We would like to emphasise that if the problems had been “just” affecting StatCounter we could have lived with that (e.g. if payment to our bank account was delayed) but since these problems have impacted on our members also, Paypal’s lack of action is simply unacceptable.
We are not happy that these issues had to brought into the public domain like this, however, Paypal’s lack of communication and assistance left us with no other option.
It may be a coincidence, but on the day that we posted this blog, nearly all of the highlighted issues were reported as “resolved”, 14 days after all of the problems arose.
We would still welcome an official response from Paypal in relation to these these problems.
Hi folks,
The Issue
We are having ongoing, critical problems with Paypal.
In view of the complete lack of assistance from Paypal in this regard, we have decided that we have no option but to inform you, our members, about the facts of the situation. This will allow you to make an informed decision about whether to use (or whether to continue to use) Paypal.
Please note that these problems may arise not only in relation to payments made to StatCounter but in relation to ANY Paypal payments that you make. We hope that this post will equip you with the information necessary to make sure that YOU do not become another victim of this ongoing Paypal saga.
The Problems
On 15 May Paypal performed a site update – this is confirmed by Paypal here.
After this date numerous problems were reported across the globe:
- The Paypal Handling Cart feature completely broke down – see update below
- Cross border payments could not be made as the drop down country list did not work – see update below
- Customers have been flooded with hundreds of duplicate subscription emails from Paypal – see update below
- Payments from Paypal are no longer associated with the relevant subscriptions – see update below
- Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
- Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
- Merchants/customers are unable to cancel subscriptions – see update below
The main problem that we have with Paypal is NOT the list of issues above – we all know that errors happen – we are absolutely furious at the complete lack of acknowledgement or assistance from Paypal in relation to these matters.
At StatCounter we have tried phoning, emailing, posting on the Paypal forums… Many of our contacts are ignored, but even when we do get an answer all we are told is that “Upon review of your account, unfortunately we do not have a time frame for a resolution to your issue we are currently actively investigating your issue with subscriptions.” You can see our posts in the Paypal forums here and here.
It appears that all of these problems are the result of the update made by Paypal on 15 May. Typically, any software upgrades can be “rolled back” if they are found to be flawed. Paypal’s inability (unwillingness?) to do this does not bode well.
What does this mean for me as a StatCounter Paypal Subscriber?
Unfortunately, we will be unable to issue invoices to many of our customers who pay us via Paypal until such time as the above issues are resolved. This is because the “payment file” provided by Paypal and from which invoices are generated is incomplete.
There is also a danger that you may be “double billed”. Please make sure to check your Paypal account to see if this happens. Although we would be delighted to sort out any double billing for you, in the current climate of confusion we are unsure whether WE are actually receiving the erroneously charged amounts. This means that WE are not currently able to refund any of these overpayments to you. We strongly believe that since this is a Paypal error, Paypal should rectify the situation – and leave us to focus again on our members rather than cleaning up a mess of Paypal’s making. Please do report any double billing to us and we will take action to report each case directly to Paypal.
Other StatCounter Upgrade Options
Please note that you can also make subscription payments to StatCounter using your credit card directly, by cheque or by electonic transfer to our bank.
Conclusion
Folks – we sincerely regret any problems you are experiencing and assure you that we are doing our best to get all of these issues resolved for you. We strive to offer a high level of customer service and pride ourselves on being responsive to the needs and suggestions of our members. To have our hands “tied” in this way as a result of Paypal’s inaction is frustrating to say the least.
These problems with Paypal have already cost us thousands of dollars. We continue to expend large amounts of time and resources on these issues – resources which we would much prefer to concentrate on improving the service we provide to you. We would be very grateful for your patience at this time as we wait for Paypal to resolve these issues.
We would also ask you to be patient with any of our fellow internet merchants experiencing difficulties with Paypal at this time.
Please post any comments or questions below.
Notes:
- This post is not intended to alarm, instead it is intended to inform.
- We at StatCounter do not take any pleasure in having to report these issues to you, rather we feel at this point that we have no option but to do so.
- While we hope that this post will generate media attention which may force Paypal to finally act and respond to the various problems outlined above, it is not the intention of the post to generate publicity for StatCounter.
- As we like to try to accomodate the needs of our members Paypal is still currently available as a payment option on StatCounter for new upgraded account subscribers. This position is currently under review and opinions from our members in this regard are being sought here.
- Paypal, of course, have a right of reply to this post and should they wish to contact us, we would be happy to post their response here.
Other Links:
www.channelregister.co.uk
tech.blorge.com
www.finextra.com
Paypal Forums 1
Paypal Forums 2
Paypal Forums 3
Update 2pm GMT 29 May: This post by Paypal indicates that the following issues have been resolved:
1) For subscription signups, when trying to enter billing information users
are not be able to change the country on the billing page.
2) For merchants using “handling_cart” parameter with PayPal Shopping
Cart buttons handling amount is not charged.
To the best of our knowledge the other issues remain and do not yet appear to have been acknowledged by Paypal.
Update 9pm GMT 29 May: A post by a Paypal staff member here indicates that these issues (some of which we weren’t even aware of) have been resolved:
1. Cannot change ‘country’ for subscriptions.
2. Free trials not being charged once trial period is over.
3. Subscriptions with free trials not being shown in history log.
4. Can’t cancel an active subscription.
5. Multiple emails being recieved (sic) for subscription payments.
No mention appears to have been made of these issues:
# Payments from Paypal are no longer associated with the relevant subscriptions
# Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
# Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
The double billing remains the major issue of concern to us.
Update 11:20pm GMT 29 May:
Although we have still not received any official communications from Paypal, we can confirm from our own experience that payments from Paypal ARE now again being associated with the relevant subscriptions. For StatCounter members with Paypal upgrades this will mean that we can now issue you with your outstanding invoices.
We have confirmed in our account that the double billing issue persists:
# Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
As far as we are aware, the following issue also remains:
# Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
Why PAIN PAL will not put pressure on eBay to make corrections. eBay Inc. is an American Internet company that manages eBay.com, an online auction and shopping Web site in which people and businesses buy and sell goods and services worldwide. In addition to its original U.S. Web site, eBay has established localized Web sites in thirty other countries. eBay Inc also owns PayPal, Skype,[1] StubHub, and other businesses.
Watch out. Minority investor eBay (EBAY) sued craig’s List on Apr. 22. EBay owns just under 25% of craigslist—down from 28.4%, according to a court filing that alleges craigslist, among other things, improperly diluted its stake. Craigslist, which is readying its legal response, has mostly restricted comment to two of Buckmaster’s blog posts. In one he wrote that eBay had no cause for fear “unless they’re planning a hostile takeover of craigslist, or the sale of eBay’s stake to an unfriendly party.”
But eBay’s move into low-cost classifieds via its kijiji.com unit clearly rankled. In July, 2007, the lawsuit says, Buckmaster cited kijiji’s U.S. expansion to express “a wish to explore our options for repurchase, or otherwise [find] a new home” for eBay’s stake. EBay’s then-CEO Meg Whitman responded that eBay would like to buy craigslist when craigslist was ready.
i wish they woould buy me. they already treat me like they own me LOL
There’s a very simple answer to all this. Refuse to accept “pay me more and more.pal”
http://au.geocities.com/rayfo34/vacs.html
PAIN in the ASS PAL. Paypal has become to huge. They just keep gobbling up companies and everytime the service becomes terrible after Paypal digs in it’s claws. They took over Veri Sign. I am an internet merchant. Occaisionally I had problems with transactions. All I had to do was pick up the phone and call VERISIGN. i got a live person and the problem was fixed ASAP. With PAIN PAL all I get is GRIEF! Phone calls – FORGET IT. emails FORGET IT, self help web site is like getting lost in Home depot -FORGET IT! I wish there was an alternative but they have us by the gonads. My recommendation if you need to transfer money with PayPal FORGET IT FORGET IT FORGET IT FORGET IT FORGET IT fORGET IT!
I think its time paypal heeded all the comments in this page and resolve the problems. Otherwise it will earn not only a bad name within the statcounter family and customers but will the rest of the internet world too. The less said the better about it.
Since you have been offering free and high-class service to all of us, we, in turn should help you in this problem. Please seek our help, if any, statcounter authorities. I, and the 175 before me, and hopefully another 175 after me, will be ready to offer our help!!!
Ehm..it’s make me harder to believe one payment processor over internet, I have bad issue about E-Gold and even moneybookers also.
1and1 is a financial nightmare for its customers. Pay Pal or otherwise they are incompetent at processing, or asking for payments. The very fact that they have a collection agency, NCO Financial, and the 2nd option on their billing phone menu is enough for one to know that their financial model requires bilking customers out of money.
I grew tired of PayPal about a year ago. Lost 170 dollars using them. I now use moneybookers, and have no problems so far.
www.moneybookers.com
Wish you accepted them.
cheers
I never saw a so bad campaing for destroy just, may be lact from people to use the right way, understand or read about what you are doing, and so on.
I already have a problem with a credit card use through Paypal. Credit card was in error. I had Paypal the same day, in my native language, on phone !
They call themselves the Bank, resolve the problem very fast and invite mysself to recal if ever any other problem.
I use Paypal since many years and what I saw is people trying to caught others, but not Paypal in fault or lack of courtesy.
When you see a compagny growing some may not imagine that they may do with honesty and sincerity.
So my questions is, if some people may not imagine a capitalist compagny which would be honnest and consideration for customers, may be it is those peoples arent honnest and so bad they just may not see others may be differents of themselves.
Thank you for saying what your are thinking and let see how much peoples likes to destroy or back without knowledge, just for they need to back wrong people and words.
A processor as large as Paypal (Ebay) can have problems like this. I dont know that a draconian “dump them” measure is really warranted. Our company had a processing issue with Wells Fargo last year but it was resolved in due course and all is well. It’s unfortunate that Paypal doesnt have a better mechinism to alert merchants and customers to issues that take place after enhancements to their systems, but this is really nothing new. Dropping Paypal from your system would be a dumb move.
I feel your pain. I have a subscription that I have been unable to cancel because I can’t contact the site owner with the email address provided by PayPal. And since PayPal has no mechanism for these sorts of problem, I am stuck with paying the monthly fee.
Guys,
I’ve been a “free” user of your services for about 10 years. No Complaints with your great organization.
Thanks for having the guts to keep your customers updated on the events at PayPal.
I’m surprised that Ebay hasn’t leveraged the issue to put pressure for a timely resolution.
StatCounter,
I feel for you! A few years ago I had a problem with Paypal. I have not had anything to do with them since then. I do lots of on-line business. However, each time I see any particular activity associated with Paypal where I have to submit “money” to receive the particular service, I go else where. If I can not submit “money” directly to the service I want I immediately close my browser, and clear their address from my computer. I don’t want to have ANYTHING to do with Paypal. They have been allowed to get away with incompetence for too long! StatCounter, you poor soul. DUMP PAYPAL the first chance you get!
I sympathize with the frustration you are experiencing. I have had an ongoing issue with PayPal now for many months. I have emailed them and telephoned them but they seem unable or unwilling to listen to what I say. Eventually I asked them simply to cancel my account, but they won’t even do that. I have told them they can keep it open for the next 100 years if they wish but I shall NEVER use it again.
Maybe it’s time to try Revolution MoneyExchange. It’s free to send and receive money or transfer to your bank account.
Check it out, I’ve started offering it as form of payment on my websites and have received favorable response. Since so many people dislike PayPal and their fees.
Here’s the referral link: Just copy and paste into your browser.
https://www.revolutionmoneyexchange.com/ReferAFriend/Refer
AFriend_landing.aspx?referreremail=lisaw64@embarqmail.com
P.S. People suggest contacting the Better Business Bureau.
Well I already did that (I sent them my above-site as proof of fraud) but never heard from them.
I gave Paypal and Paymate away a few years ago. I have my own merchant acount with my bank. I am fully in control of all transactions and all orders come to me personally – where the buck stops!
I have had issues with another payment receiver in the USA and now steer clear of any third party money receiver like Paypal. Although clickbank who I buy through occasionally have been good.
Paypal and Paymate are just a third party pain. It’s more cost effective to get your own merchant account with your bank and then you are totally in control. Also I would not use Paypal to buy anything – and have you seen the crap on ebay?
It looks as though Paypal has outgrown itself and is now dysfunctional – very much the same story with large corporations.
There is no effective management in larger companies – just try to deal with any Government department – most of these should be shut down.
I know this seems to be leading to bashing government departments but like all larger corporations they are run by ill trained people with management and workers who don’t really care about their jobs and don’t want to be there – so why not do everyone a favour and do something else in life where they are happy – life is too short to stay in a miserable job – it’s just complacency!
And – Yes, stay clear of Paypal and use company merchant account payment systems – that is, where you can pay direct with your card to the vendor of the goods.
I agree 1000,000 percent. PayPal (and Ebay & others) are criminal. I’ve lost alot of money due to their practices.
Among which, here’s proof in a nutshell of seller fraud:
http://junkjunk.atspace.com/refurb.html
Yet, does Ebay allow people to post links in their Feedback – as pictorial proof of fraud, to discourage scams? No way! Links are rejected in Feedback – welcome to the USSR of PayPal/Ebay, both of whom:
SPECIALIZE IN SOCIALIZED BOILERPLATE FORM LETTERS, CLOAKED IN A CLOYINGLY SWEET VENEER OF SO-CALLED “COURTEOUSNESS”.