UPDATE: 15.25am GMT 30 May – RESOLVED
Paypal have acknowledged the double billing issue!
Please see here and here.
If YOU are a merchant whose customers have been affected by double billing, Paypal have confirmed that you can EITHER refund one of the two transactions by yourself OR contact their merchant support.
Sincere thanks to Karen and Danny in Paypal for their help, for working together to resolve our problems and for keeping us informed along the way.
While we have received great service from two individuals at Paypal within the last 12 hours, this does not excuse the lack of communication or assistance that we were forced to endure in the previous two weeks. We remain distinctly dissatisfied with the way Paypal have handled this situation.
As far as we can see, ALL the issues we previously reported are now RESOLVED.
UPDATE: 13.45am GMT 30 May
We have just emailed all the requested information to our contact in the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations who has promised to further investigate our case.
It appears that Paypal really ARE capable of providing good support – it’s just a shame that it took so long (and a blog post?) for it to happen.
UPDATE: 13.05am GMT 30 May
The excellent chap now looking after our case in “PayPal Merchant Technical Support” has just updated us again:
I’m working with our management team to setup a procedure for all the PayPal merchant affected by this issue.
We will also post shortly on our forum an acknowledgement of this additional issue with subscriptions, where you can redirect your customers in case they need a clarification.
I’ll keep you posted.
While it has taken weeks for this to happen Paypal ARE now communicating and we hope that the remaining unresolved issues will shortly be resolved for all of us.
UPDATE: 12.55am GMT 30 May
We are delighted to advise that we have spoken to a very helpful person in the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations. She apologised on behalf of Paypal, is fully investigating our case at present and has noted all our points in relation to the lack of communication and assistance. We will keep you updated.
UPDATE: 12.05am GMT 30 May
We have received a further email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”.
After reviewing those transactions I fully agree with the description of the issue you gave me.
Folks – we hope this means that the double billing issues will be resolved shortly.
UPDATE: 11.50am GMT 30 May
We have now received a voicemail from the Paypal Office of Executive Escalations. They would like to speak to us about the ongoing subscription problems and double billing issues. They are due to call us back later today.
UPDATE: 11.20am GMT 30 May
We have received a further email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”. They have informed us that the missing subscription issue has been resolved as we established in our update at the end of this post at 11:20pm GMT yesterday.
They have also confirmed that they are investigating the double billing issue. We are very relieved to finally KNOW that Paypal are actively investigating and addressing our concerns.
We will update again as we hear more.
UPDATE: 7.40am GMT 30 May
We have received an email from “PayPal Merchant Technical Support”
Thank you for contacting PayPal Merchant Technical Support.
I will research this matter further and update you with more information as it becomes available. If you have any additional information or updates to your issue, please use the instructions in this email to update your ticket.
Thank you for your patience.
Although the double billing issue remains, in light of many of the other issues being resolved we are hopeful that this problem will be fixed shortly.
Many thanks to all of you for your support. Particular thanks to our customers who have been directly affected by these problems for their patience and understanding.
We would like to emphasise that if the problems had been “just” affecting StatCounter we could have lived with that (e.g. if payment to our bank account was delayed) but since these problems have impacted on our members also, Paypal’s lack of action is simply unacceptable.
We are not happy that these issues had to brought into the public domain like this, however, Paypal’s lack of communication and assistance left us with no other option.
It may be a coincidence, but on the day that we posted this blog, nearly all of the highlighted issues were reported as “resolved”, 14 days after all of the problems arose.
We would still welcome an official response from Paypal in relation to these these problems.
Hi folks,
The Issue
We are having ongoing, critical problems with Paypal.
In view of the complete lack of assistance from Paypal in this regard, we have decided that we have no option but to inform you, our members, about the facts of the situation. This will allow you to make an informed decision about whether to use (or whether to continue to use) Paypal.
Please note that these problems may arise not only in relation to payments made to StatCounter but in relation to ANY Paypal payments that you make. We hope that this post will equip you with the information necessary to make sure that YOU do not become another victim of this ongoing Paypal saga.
The Problems
On 15 May Paypal performed a site update – this is confirmed by Paypal here.
After this date numerous problems were reported across the globe:
- The Paypal Handling Cart feature completely broke down – see update below
- Cross border payments could not be made as the drop down country list did not work – see update below
- Customers have been flooded with hundreds of duplicate subscription emails from Paypal – see update below
- Payments from Paypal are no longer associated with the relevant subscriptions – see update below
- Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
- Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
- Merchants/customers are unable to cancel subscriptions – see update below
The main problem that we have with Paypal is NOT the list of issues above – we all know that errors happen – we are absolutely furious at the complete lack of acknowledgement or assistance from Paypal in relation to these matters.
At StatCounter we have tried phoning, emailing, posting on the Paypal forums… Many of our contacts are ignored, but even when we do get an answer all we are told is that “Upon review of your account, unfortunately we do not have a time frame for a resolution to your issue we are currently actively investigating your issue with subscriptions.” You can see our posts in the Paypal forums here and here.
It appears that all of these problems are the result of the update made by Paypal on 15 May. Typically, any software upgrades can be “rolled back” if they are found to be flawed. Paypal’s inability (unwillingness?) to do this does not bode well.
What does this mean for me as a StatCounter Paypal Subscriber?
Unfortunately, we will be unable to issue invoices to many of our customers who pay us via Paypal until such time as the above issues are resolved. This is because the “payment file” provided by Paypal and from which invoices are generated is incomplete.
There is also a danger that you may be “double billed”. Please make sure to check your Paypal account to see if this happens. Although we would be delighted to sort out any double billing for you, in the current climate of confusion we are unsure whether WE are actually receiving the erroneously charged amounts. This means that WE are not currently able to refund any of these overpayments to you. We strongly believe that since this is a Paypal error, Paypal should rectify the situation – and leave us to focus again on our members rather than cleaning up a mess of Paypal’s making. Please do report any double billing to us and we will take action to report each case directly to Paypal.
Other StatCounter Upgrade Options
Please note that you can also make subscription payments to StatCounter using your credit card directly, by cheque or by electonic transfer to our bank.
Conclusion
Folks – we sincerely regret any problems you are experiencing and assure you that we are doing our best to get all of these issues resolved for you. We strive to offer a high level of customer service and pride ourselves on being responsive to the needs and suggestions of our members. To have our hands “tied” in this way as a result of Paypal’s inaction is frustrating to say the least.
These problems with Paypal have already cost us thousands of dollars. We continue to expend large amounts of time and resources on these issues – resources which we would much prefer to concentrate on improving the service we provide to you. We would be very grateful for your patience at this time as we wait for Paypal to resolve these issues.
We would also ask you to be patient with any of our fellow internet merchants experiencing difficulties with Paypal at this time.
Please post any comments or questions below.
Notes:
- This post is not intended to alarm, instead it is intended to inform.
- We at StatCounter do not take any pleasure in having to report these issues to you, rather we feel at this point that we have no option but to do so.
- While we hope that this post will generate media attention which may force Paypal to finally act and respond to the various problems outlined above, it is not the intention of the post to generate publicity for StatCounter.
- As we like to try to accomodate the needs of our members Paypal is still currently available as a payment option on StatCounter for new upgraded account subscribers. This position is currently under review and opinions from our members in this regard are being sought here.
- Paypal, of course, have a right of reply to this post and should they wish to contact us, we would be happy to post their response here.
Other Links:
www.channelregister.co.uk
tech.blorge.com
www.finextra.com
Paypal Forums 1
Paypal Forums 2
Paypal Forums 3
Update 2pm GMT 29 May: This post by Paypal indicates that the following issues have been resolved:
1) For subscription signups, when trying to enter billing information users
are not be able to change the country on the billing page.
2) For merchants using “handling_cart” parameter with PayPal Shopping
Cart buttons handling amount is not charged.
To the best of our knowledge the other issues remain and do not yet appear to have been acknowledged by Paypal.
Update 9pm GMT 29 May: A post by a Paypal staff member here indicates that these issues (some of which we weren’t even aware of) have been resolved:
1. Cannot change ‘country’ for subscriptions.
2. Free trials not being charged once trial period is over.
3. Subscriptions with free trials not being shown in history log.
4. Can’t cancel an active subscription.
5. Multiple emails being recieved (sic) for subscription payments.
No mention appears to have been made of these issues:
# Payments from Paypal are no longer associated with the relevant subscriptions
# Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
# Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
The double billing remains the major issue of concern to us.
Update 11:20pm GMT 29 May:
Although we have still not received any official communications from Paypal, we can confirm from our own experience that payments from Paypal ARE now again being associated with the relevant subscriptions. For StatCounter members with Paypal upgrades this will mean that we can now issue you with your outstanding invoices.
We have confirmed in our account that the double billing issue persists:
# Some customers have been and are being DOUBLE BILLED by Paypal
As far as we are aware, the following issue also remains:
# Merchants have not been receiving instant payment notifications or failure notifications
I understand completely, I quit using paypal some time ago as i believe they are nothing more than scammers. Repeated attempts rto resolve an issue fell on deaf ears. I filed a complaint with the Federal trade Commision, only then did I get a response which was something along the lines of we can charge whatever we we want for our services, translation: we can rip you off as much as we want! There has to be a better way than Paypal?
Paypal: Great Idea….high costs….total lack of service and arrogant towards their customers.
A merchant account with the right bank and payment gateway is the only way to go. You’ll lower your overall costs and have control over payments and what is accepted and what you need to decline.
I wanted to pay a web designer from Canada about 3 weeks ago. He used Paypal and I signed up.
Shortly after making the 250$ payment, my Visa debit was debited for that amount,but the guy never got the cash. My payment was being investigated.
Since it was urgent, I had to send the money by wire (swift).
That´s PP publicity “Send money anywhere quickly and savely” – certainly not true.
Then, PP froze my account and kept the money. I spent hours emailing, I sent letter to headoffice and after 3 weeks I finally got my money back.
Then I looked about the inernet, and found many sites:
www.paypalwarning.com
www.paypalsucks.com
there are tons of other sites…
I don´t think it happens, you don´t think it´s for real, until it hits YOU.
I have not used Paypal in quite awhile and no longer have an account with them as I do not really trust them. My advice would be not to use them anymore since you do offer other alternatives for payment. I never use Paypal unless it is the only alternative to make a payment for something.
This is the most timely article I’ve read in a long long time. This is because I’m new in business and was going to register for Pay Pall just today! I’ve heard a few problems here and there but I’ve always assumed it’s the normal hitches that company’s have. but now I see the from your article and reader’s comments that it’s a much bigger problem. Thanks Statcounter. This is very enlightening.
I’m in the process of starting an online business and had paypal selected as one of the top 3 merchant service providers. And it’s not like they are cheaper.
I had a problem with paypal and skype, where they charged my paypal account and didn’t credit my voip account. I complained and paypal refunded me the money, only for skype to shut down my account.
I am now with Yahoo voip.
Paypal, Ebay, Skype should be avoided at all costs.
Glad you are explaining the truth – I’ve had my issues as well and I smile knowing the type of reach you have with this information. Sorry for the problem, but kudos for the guts. Hopefully they’ll act now but… they are paypal:(
Hi,
Paypal must resolve their problems as soon as possible. That must be useful for them and others too…
🙂
Meditation
Paypal monopolizes the internet and couldn’t care less about its customers. I sympathize with every business that has to deal with them.
Apart from the Google Checkout mentioned above, what seems to me to be a good alternative to PayPal is XCoin — http://www.xcoin.com
GOOD FOR YOU!!!!
I have always disliked PayPal because of their allowance for the purchase of pets over the internet–the current plague of online puppy milling is epidemic and most of them accept PayPal as a form of payment to quickly sell dogs like ebay trinkets. YUCK.
This is a company with no moral center.
Paypal has some internal problems, see: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/25/paypal-ten-days-and-counting-to-fix-drop-down-menu-bug/
I closed my paypal account a couple of months ago because I got tired of differing amounts showing up on my bank statement… They never seemed to match up with the initial billing amounts for purchase or fees from ebay. Always off by a few cents. I got sick of it and when I tried to communicate with them & ebay, it was useless.
This is a typical example that when a company becomes too big, they almost loose the attitude of helping out their existing customers and are simply looking out for new business. I have had two bad experiences with them and now I personally use Google’s Checkout wherever possible (although accepted on a very few sites). You guys at statcounter are doing a great job, we are with you.
PayPal sucks. Plain and simple. There is a growing mass of people who have discovered what a Nazi-like organization PayPal is. PayPal has even been taken to Court…and lost due to their malicious actions. You can visit the website below and hear/read the horror stories surrounding PayPal.
www.paypalsucks.com
Spread the word and keep up the great work you guys do here at STATCOUNTER – simply THE best counter on the net!
Funny but they recently deposited an amount twice into my bank account and then removed the double payment 2 days later. I hadn’t gotten around to investigating it to find out why the double payment – I thought I’d made a mistake. Not seen that before.
I feel for you. I am a PayPal customer and have found them to be unresponsive when an issue comes up, and I have lost money. I’m now stuck with an account I never wanted, and therefore, paying unnecessarily more. Personally, I think they’re crooks.
I hope you remove them as a paying medium. It’s appalling what they get away with by their inattention. I know this is not practically helpful, but I have been a beneficiary of your free services and think you deserve better. I suggest you find an alternative payment agent. All the best!
There is nothing more frustrating for a business owner than to look incompetent because of the actions of a vendor. I’ve been there guys, I know what it’s like, and you have my sympathy. We know it’s not you but I have to wonder why PayPal hasn’t notified their users of this problem and taken the responsibility upon themselves. Choosing to let merchants (that pay them fees for the privilege of transacting with them) look like the cause of the problem is completely irresponsible.
I use PayPal for both buying and selling. I’m more than a little concerned that as a buyer I have not been notified by PayPal of any problems. Perhaps it’s time to move on to Google checkout…
Cuando un servicio externo provoca problemas a los usuarios de mi servicio simplemente corto la conexión por perder la confianza en el prestador. Mucho peor si estamos hablando de dinero de por medio, PayPal puede tener su reputacion, pero SC necesita mantener la suya impoluta
——————
When a 3º party service make troubles’ to my users, just cut the connection because lost of confidence. Even worst if are money in the middle, PayPal have a reputation, but SC need maintain your own clean
Saludos